Salvation

The Gospel of Initial and Final Salvation

Throughout the last two centuries of Christianity, the ‘gospel’ being preached centers upon Salvation through faith alone (Eph 2:9).

However, this Faith Alone ‘gospel’ fails to address the need for any accompanying “works” mentioned in Eph 2:10. In this, Paul said, we were “…created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them“.

The Bible says that God the Father regularly inspects each christian for spiritual “fruit” (John 15:2).

The Christians symbolised as “branches” grafted into Jesus “the Vine” (John 15:5) can only produce “fruit” from “works” (James 2:26). These “works” are produced to fulfill God the Father’s will (Matt 12:50) . 

This is why God requires Christians to accept and implement Initial and Final Salvation. This is because ONLY Final Salvation accommodates both faith” + “works” and the spiritual maturity that accompanies these “works“.

Scripture verses that prove Final Salvation

Below are the key verses which prove that God requires His people to “ENDURE TO THE END to be Saved“: “Receiving THE END OF YOUR FAITH, even THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.”  (1 Peter 1:9)

The five things ALL Christians MUST DO TO COMPLETE THE END of their faith journey to be Saved are these:

  1. ENDURE TO THE END to be saved (Matt 10:22; Matt 24:13; Mark 13:13).
  2. HOLD FAST THE HOPE of eternal life TO THE END (Heb 3:6).
  3. HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE [obtained at Initial Salvation] steadfast TO THE END (or, Final Salvation – Heb 3:14).
  4. SHOW THE SAME DILIGENCE to the full assurance of hope TO THE END (Heb 6:11).
  5. OVERCOME AND KEEP CHRIST’S WORKS TO THE END (Rev 2:26).

With the above warnings established, I encourage you to to explore what Initial and Final Salvation represents, so that from this, you can “…work out your own Salvation in fear and trembling [to determine if your Salvation is secure or not].” (Phil 2:12) .

Final Salvation

Final Salvation also relates to running the “race that God has set before us” (1 Cor 9:24 and Heb 12:1-2). This “raceattracts a huge “prize”—if completed. Any failure to “run the race” means the Christian will not achieve Salvation—from Hell.

Running a marathon race

The need for “Faith Alone” followed by “Works”

Initial Salvation relies on people hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ from a preacher, and receiving Christ as their Savior:

For BY GRACE are ye saved THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is THE GIFT OF GOD: ” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Initial Salvation for an unbeliever cannot be obtained through “good works” (Rom 4:3-5). However, the issue here is – can a Christian enter into Heaven without any of the required ‘works’ that produce “fruit” for God (John 15:1-2)?

The powerful statement below by the Apostle James plainly states that “…by works a man is justified“. This means that the Christian’s “works” justify what their faith (or beliefs) represent! The concern here is that if Christians fail to produce any of the required “works“— can they realistically be Saved?

But wilt thou know, O VAIN [Christian] man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS is dead [faith]? {21} Was not Abraham our father justified by works [of faith that he did], when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? {22} Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and BY WORKS WAS [Abraham’s] FAITH MADE PERFECT? {23} And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. {24} Ye see then how that BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY…{26} For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO.”  (James 2:20-26)

What does “works“ represent?

This statement by James creates a dilemma as to what are the “works” he refers to. It also raises the question of how do they associate with Initial and Final Salvation? Also, can one lose their Salvation if the required “works” are not evident in the Christian’s life? 

The Bible indicates that “works” are indeed necessary for Final Salvation! It also says that these represent ‘spiritual works’ that originate in Heaven initially as God’s will.

"For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother."  (Mark 3:35)

It is a requirement in scripture that Christians undertake “works” (Matt 12:50) to fulfill “God’s will”. These “works” are required to produce the required “fruit” that God the Father expects to see (John 15:2).  

Each Christian is required to represent the various members of Christ’s spiritual body on the Earth. Each ‘member’ is required to use their allocated Gifts of the Spirit to achieve God the Father’s will. See my post titled ‘The True Church of Jesus Christ‘ for more information about this.

In the matter of Christians doing God’s will, Jesus plainly says: 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, THE WORKS THAT I DO SHALL HE DO also; and GREATER WORKS THAN THESE SHALL HE DO; because I go unto my Father. {13} And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.”  (John 14:12-13)

Here, Jesus is expecting every Christian to do the same works (or even greater works) than He did. This is because He requires ALL Christians since He ascended in Heaven to save souls out of Satan’s kingdom for God the Father (Mark 16:15-16). Such “souls saved” represent the spiritual “fruit” God requires from His people. More detail about this can be read as the what the requirements are for OBEYING the Apostle Paul’s Gospel.

What are the signs that associate with these “works“?

Below are listed some of the basic “signs” (associated with the spiritual “works“) that Jesus mentioned. This means Christians everywhere should be demonstrating these gifts of the Spirit through their Final Salvation stage of their faith journey here on Earth:

And THESE SIGNS shall follow THEM THAT BELIEVE; In my name shall they CAST OUT DEVILS; they shall SPEAK WITH NEW TONGUES; 18 They shall TAKE UP SERPENTS; and if they DRINK ANY DEADLY THING, it shall not hurt them; they shall LAY HANDS ON THE SICK, and they shall recover.”Mark 16:17-19

Therefore, Final Salvation cannot be obtained through “faith alone” (Eph 2:9)!

However, where faith is associated without the accompanying “works“, this represents “dead faith” (James 2:26 ) because it fails to produce any of the required “fruit“.

"2  Every branch [or Christian grafted spiritually] in me [Jesus] that beareth NOT FRUIT he [God the Father] taketh away [from Christ through pruning]...6 If a [Christian] man [or woman] abide NOT IN ME, he [or she] is cast forth as a [fruitless] branch, and is [dry and] withered; and men [or angels—Matthew 13:41] gather them, and cast them into the [Lake of] fire, and they are burned [throughout eternity in their resurrected, eternal bodies]." — Jesus speaking  (John 15:2,6)

Initial Salvation explained:

Initial Salvation takes place where the sinner confesses their sins before God (Matt 3:6). They follow this by repenting from their sinful ways (Luke 13:3). He or she then accepts Christ as the Savior of their soul from eventually spending eternity in Hell. This is achieved using the confession of their mouth (Rom 10:9-10).

These actions are performed by FAITH ALONE. This represents the sinner’s appreciation of God’s grace, mercy, forgiveness and of the love to save them from their fate in Hell.  It is also the point where each Christian’s spiritual journey (or “RACE“) commences in their new life in Christ (Heb 11:13-16).

Final Salvation explained

The path to Final Salvation commences sometime after the ‘new birth’ occurs (John 3:3-8). This then produces the spiritual “Babe in Christ” (1 Cor 3:1). He or she then matures spiritually towards becoming a Child (1 John 2:1). Further progress (or spiritual growth) then produces a “Strong Young Man“ (1 John 2:14). Finally, a “Father” (1 John 2:14) who produces “sons” via the Gospel is then established.

God requires most Christians to become a “Good Soldier of Jesus Christ” (2 Tim 2:3).

Each Christian is expected to study the scriptures to become “approved by God” (2 Tim 2:15). He or she will also gain practical experience of opposing Satan through Deliverance ministry. He or she should then press towards the Mark of High Calling in Jesus Christ (Phil 3:14). They do this by warring “…against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Eph 6:12) so as to attain Final Salvation because of the “fruit” being brought into God’s kingdom as “treasure” (Matt 6:19-21).

Stages of spiritual growth

In an attempt to illustrate these requirements, the image below depicts the outline of a very pregnant woman who represents the spiritual nature of the true church of Jesus Christ. Her aim (together with the Holy Spirit) is to produce spiritually alive “children” on the Earth for God the Father to nurture into spiritual maturity. 

The pregnant woman analogy

This analogy of the various local churches producing spiritually “born-again” children to God relates in the same way as the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary to produce the Holy Child Jesus (Matt 1:18). However in this analogy of the church being likened unto Mary, many more “sons of God” (John 1:12; Rom 8:14) are produced (John 1:12-13) by the TRUE Church of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit — each of which is required to become functioning members of Christ’s spiritual body here on Earth (1 Cor 12:27).

Such a requirement is necessary for the church’s members to perform God the Father’s will (Matt 12:50). God’s will is outworked by “the sons of God” in each church congregation using the various “Gifts of the Spirit” given to them (1 Cor 12:7-12) in exactly the same manner as Jesus used them while on Earth.

The spiritual growth stages God expects Christians to mature through.

To further explain this illustration, located within the woman’s womb is planet Earth, where ‘spiritual seed’ (the Gospel message) is preached into the hearts of unsaved people by Christ’s evangelists (Luke 8:11).

The Gospel ‘seed’ is left to germinate in the various types of “soil” within the hearts of those who heard the message (Matt 13:8-9). When germination eventually takes place by God providing the “water“, it produces ‘Saved’ Christians (Rom 10:9-10). 

“I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.”  (1 Cor 3:6-7)

Some of these “Saved” Christians (meaning those who have “good soil” in their hearts – Matt 13:8) manage to attain their ‘new birth’ experience (John 3:8) and in doing so, enter into God’s spiritual kingdom on Earth as “new-born babes in Christ” (1 Peter 2:2).

A “Live” or a “Still” birth?

However, other Christians seeking the New Birth are often ‘aborted’ along the way because of their preference for ‘religion’ (or by abandoning their faith – 1 Tim 1:19) rather than applying the required effort to study and understand the scriptures.

Failed Stage of Christian Salvation

This means they are not truly ‘born-again’ and therefore “cannot see” God’s kingdom on Earth, nor will they be able to “enter into God’s kingdom” (John 3:3, 5) when their time comes to decide their eternal destiny at death.

In the image of the very pregnant woman, this symbolizes a highly evangelistic and Biblically based church that attracts converts through its outreach programs. Those who mature in sanctification (John 17:17), holiness (1 Peter 1:15-16) and perfection (Matt 5:48) in the Christian life (2 Peter 1:5-8) also become disciples of Jesus Christ to help save more souls from perishing. 

Therefore, Initial Salvation is obtained by FAITH ALONE and NO WORKS. 

It ends in Final Salvation where spiritual “fruit” is continually produced unto God through the exercise of the ‘spiritual gifts’ of individual Christians (1 Cor. 12:8-11) who actively associate together within a body of believers (1 Cor. 12:27). It also means they actively associate with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit to enable them to produce the required “fruit” for God the Father.

Features of the ‘New Birth’

As the Child of God studies the scriptures and presses into God’s kingdom by demonstrating his or her love for God, this love is demonstrated by their resisting sin from Satan’s temptations in their new life in Christ (1 John 3:16). He or she must also “study to show they are approved unto God” (2 Tim 2:15).

It is at some point in this “striving” to enter God’s kingdom (Luke 13:24) that God the Father chooses to bring His Child into His kingdom via the ‘New Birth’ experience (John 3:3-8). This occurs so that He can place within His child a new heart and “a new spirit“(Ezek 36:26) that eventually develops the following godly characteristics:

  • A broken spirit (Matt 5:3; 11:28-30; Psalm 51:17; Isa 57:15; 66:2)
  • A penitent spirit (e.g. repentant or remorseful) spirit (Matt 5:4; Isa 61:2; James 4:9; 2 Cor 7:9-11)
  • A mild-tempered, gentle spirit (Matt 5:5; 11:29; Psalm 37:11; 1 Peter 3:4)
  • A spirit that hungers and thirsts for righteousness (Matt 5:6; Psalm 34:10; 42:1-3; 63:1; 84:2; John 7:37-39)
  • A compassionate and merciful spirit (Matt 5:7; 18:27; 1 Peter 3:8)
  • A pure spirit (Matt 5:8; Phil 4:8; 1 Tim. 1:5; 3:9; 5:22; 1 Peter 1:22)
  • A spirit of wisdom and mediation (Matt 5:9; Rom 14:19; 1 Cor 13)
  • A long-suffering and forgiving spirit (Matt 5:10-12; 10:16-28; 1 Cor 13; 1 Peter 3:14-17; 4:3-19)

The Christian’s Initial and Final Salvation is evident by the “works” performed during their life (James 2:26). This evident by using the “power of God” to overcome Satan’s forces – Luke 10:19 . Most of these “works” are achieved by working together in unity with God and other Bible-believing Christians (John 4:36-38).

Progressing towards spiritual maturity

The illustration below endeavors to portray growth in the spiritual life of a ‘born-again’ Christian who satisfies God’s ‘conditions’ for securing eternal life with Him after death through the process of Initial and Final Salvation

Initial and Final Salvation

A good explanation of what the chart represents can be seen in this brief video.

Please remember this:

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION with FEAR and TREMBLING [that you might lose it].  (Phil 2:12)

Alan Manson

After having a "born-again" experience in 1990, this changed my life. I have come to love reading the King James Bible and have studied it exhaustively. Through this, Jesus Christ has shown me that the many and varied 'gospels' about today in the various churches today are false, and there are NONE that will save any Christian from spending eternity in Hell. The ONLY Gospel that "Saves" Christians from this fate is Paul's Gospel, which he termed "My Gospel" (Rom 2:16) and that is what this website/blog and YouTube videos explain and promote.

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  • What's up?

    I found this article very interesting...please read!

    Do you remember the blockbuster hit film The Matrix that was released in 1999? You may not know this, but it has deep spiritual implications concerning the times we are living in and Bible prophecy.

    It tells a story of how these "agents" are trying to turn us into machines. We are closer then ever before for this to become a reality when they cause us to receive an implantable microchip in our body during a time when physical money will be no more.

    You may have seen on NBC news concerning the implantable RFID microchip that some people are getting put in their hand to make purchases, but did you know this microchip matches perfectly with prophecy in the Bible?

    "He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name...

    You also may have heard of the legendary number "666" that people have been speculating for possibly thousands of years on what it actually means. This article shares something I haven't seen before, and I don't think there could be any better explanation for what it means to calculate 666. This is no hoax. Very fascinating stuff!

    ...Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666" (Revelation 13:16-18 NKJV).

    To see all the details showing why the Bible foretold of all these things, check out this article!

    Article: https://biblewoke.com/rfid-mark-of-the-beast-666-revealed

    GOD is sending out His end time warning:

    "Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name'" (Revelation 14:9-11).

    In the Islamic religion they have man called the Mahdi who is known as their messiah of whom they are waiting to take the stage. There are many testimonies from people online who believe this man will be Barack Obama who is to be the biblical Antichrist based off dreams they have received. I myself have had strange dreams about him like no other person. So much so that I decided to share this information.

    He came on stage claiming to be a Christian with no affiliation to the Muslim faith...

    "In our lives, Michelle and I have been strengthened by our Christian faith. But there have been times where my faith has been questioned -- by people who don't know me -- or they've said that I adhere to a different religion, as if that were somehow a bad thing,'' - Barack Obama

    ...but was later revealed by his own family members that he indeed is a devout Muslim.

    So what's in the name? The meaning of someones name can say a lot about a person. God throughout history has given names to people that have a specific meaning tied to their lives. How about the name Barack Obama? Let us take a look at what may be hiding beneath the surface...

    "And He (Jesus) said to them (His disciples), 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven'" (Luke 10:18).

    In the Hebrew language we can uncover the meaning behind the name Barack Obama.

    Barack, also transliterated as Baraq, in Hebrew is: lightning

    baraq - Biblical definition:

    From Strongs H1299; lightning; by analogy a gleam; concretely a flashing sword: - bright, glitter (-ing, sword), lightning. (Strongs Hebrew word H1300 baraq baw-rawk')

    Barak 'O'bamah, The use of bamah is used to refer to the "heights" of Heaven.

    bamah - Biblical definition:

    From an unused root (meaning to be high); an elevation: - height, high place, wave. (Strongs Hebrew word H1116 bamah baw-maw')

    The day following the election of Barack Obama (11/04/08), the winning pick 3 lotto numbers in Illinois (Obama's home state) for 11/5/08 were 666.

    Obama was a U.S. senator for Illinois, and his zip code was 60606.

    Seek Jesus while He may be found...repent, confess and forsake your sins and trust in the savior! Jesus says we must be born again by His Holy Spirit to enter the kingdom of God...God bless!

  • My name is Alan Finch. In April of 1976, I submitted my life to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

    Probably the greatest deception from the Spirit of darkness, is the belief by most Believers in Christ, that ALL Believers in Christ will rule & reign with Jesus.

    In the 25th Chapter of Matthew JESUS gives us a parable about 10 virgins that greatly helps us to understand more clearly that not ALL Believers in Christ will rule & reign with Him.

    The Scriptures paint a picture for us of Christ being the Bridegroom of His Church which is made up of Believers in Christ portrayed as virgins.

    There are a number of truths to be uncovered in this parable. I will attempt to explain the main point of this parable that JESUS wants Believers in Christ to come to an understanding of.

    These 10 virgins in this parable were “engaged” to Christ, the Bridegroom. Only virgins which in this parable are representative of Believers in Christ, are “engaged” to Christ.

    At the end of this present Age, JESUS will return to marry in the Spirit, His Bride, which is representative of His Church, which is made up of Believers in Christ. The “engagement period” for ALL Believers in Christ, from ALL Ages, will finally have come to an end.

    In this parable, 5 of the virgins that were “engaged” to Christ were faithfully prepared for His return, because not only did they know JESUS as their Saviour, but they knew JESUS as their Lord, because they had submitted themselves to His Lordship.

    The other 5 virgins who were also “engaged” to Christ, were not faithfully prepared for the Lord’s return, because they only knew JESUS as their Saviour. They did not know JESUS as their Lord, because they never submitted themselves to His Lordship.

    So, the underlying message of this parable is: JESUS wants Believers in Christ to come to the understanding that being “engaged” to Him does not guarantee our becoming married to Him in the Spirit at the end of this present Age.

    It will only be the faithful “engaged” Believers in Christ who have prepared themselves for His return by their submission to His Lordship that will be married to JESUS in the Spirit at the end of this present Age. These will be the Believers in Christ who will rule & reign with Him.

    The bottom line is that in this parable JESUS is declaring that the door WILL BE SHUT to Believers in Christ who do not come under His Lordship, which will result in them not being allowed to enter into the Kingdom of God in the next Age to rule & reign with Him. The DOOR WILL BE SHUT to these Believers in Christ.

    In Matthew 7:23 JESUS will tell many Believers in Christ to depart from Him, because He never knew them. Even though theses Believers in Christ on that day, which refers to the day of the Great White Throne Judgment, will stand before Him and say Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and your name cast out devils, and in your name done many miracles?

    Because these Believers in Christ did indeed prophesy in His name, and did indeed cast out devils in His name, and did indeed to many miracles in His name, they will be shocked to here JESUS say to them, “depart from me, I never knew you.”

    In other words, JESUS is declaring to them, because they indeed know JESUS as their Saviour, and did indeed do all these wonderful things in His name, and did call Him, Lord, Lord, they never actually came under His Lordship. This is the reason why that JESUS will painfully declare to them, “depart from me, I never knew you.”

    In other words, these Believers in Christ were indeed servants of JESUS. However, JESUS is declaring to them that He never knew them as one of His servants who came under His Lordship, and this is why that JESUS declares them that they will stand before Him on that day, which refers to the day of the Great White Throne Judgment.

    In May of 2014, the Lord put a heavy burden in my Spirit to write a document which I titled "What is the GOOD NEWS of Gospel of Christ?"

    In the document I Biblically expound upon: (1) is there really going to be eternal torment in a physical Lake of Fire" (2) is there really going to be eternal annihilation? (3) to give a Biblical answer to the question: if there is not eternal torment in a physical Lake of Fire, and if there is no eternal damnation of our very being, then what are we being saved from, and what is our purpose for being here during this present time really all about?

    When I first started writing my document, it was 12 pages in length. It now is 30 pages in length, because the Lord then put a great burden in my Spirit to Biblically expound upon the fact that there will be many Believers in Christ who will not rule & reign with JESUS.

    I Biblically expound upon this issue quite extensively in my document.

    If anyone would like a copy of my 30 page document, email me at:
    (candy33alan@aol.com) and I will email you a copy.

  • Apprеciation to my father who shared with me on the topic of thіs blog,
    this website is really remarkable.

    • Dear Brook,

      Thank you so much for your kind comment. It is nice to receive the occasional encouraging comment that contrast among comments from 'religious' people who aren't prepared to examine the facts being presented here. Blessings!

  • Alan,

    Although I agree with some of your overarching premises (e.g. “Communism [has] infiltrated [many] Churches”; “Communism’s leavening of today’s churches is that they have become more like entertainment venues than places where God’s people gather”; and that the dead go straight to heaven), I believe you may be guilty of hypocrisy.

    I say this in light of a response you made to a comment about a post on your blog “My Gospel Blog”. In your response you stated “if any Christian prefers to cherry-pick what the Bible says by omitting certain statements that disagree with their view of what the Bible says, then such Christians are not being honest in their beliefs.” It seems that is exactly what you do throughout your blog.

    In his article “The Two Phases of Sancitification” Elder Michael Gowens provides a good explanation of Biblical interpretation. Using sanctification as an example, Elder Gowens states;

    “Like every Bible subject, the doctrine of sanctification must be “rightly divided” (2 Tim. 2:15). References to this theme, in other words, must be interpreted according to the analogy of faith—the most basic rule of Biblical interpretation—lest Scripture appear to contradict itself.
    This practice of comparing Scripture with Scripture and of synthesizing the parts to make a systematic and unified whole arises from the presupposition that Scripture presents a logically consistent message. The Bible’s Author, the eternal Logos , is not capable of self-contradiction (2 Tim. 2:13b).

    Apparent contradictions between two Biblical references, therefore, must be attributed to the interpreter’s lack of understanding, instead of any possibility of antithesis in the nature of God. The challenge facing the interpreter of Scripture is to explain apparently contradictory passages so that coherence and consistency is achieved. The Bible student who dismisses the discipline of “rightly dividing” God’s word, opting instead for the practice of inserting the popular definition of a term whenever it occurs, will necessarily find himself embracing diametrically opposite principles as equally true.”

    The solution to this dilemma is to recognize that Scripture presents its doctrines as truths with more than one phase.” https://sovgrace.net/2020/03/28/the-two-phases-of-sancitification/

    Keeping in mind that the Bible must be interpreted as a whole and cannot contradict itself on any point and if I understand your May 8, 2019, blog post “Initial and Final Salvation” to presuppose the idea that eternal salvation comes by “works”, then it seems your blog post falls victim to “cherry picking”. Scripture clearly states that works have nothing to do with eternal salvation. Works are a fruit (Gal 5:22) love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance) of the Spirit working within the child of God. Without the Spirit working within us we can do nothing good (Rom 3:10-12 “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”

    If “Initial and Final Salvation” is true as you say, how do you resolve your idea with Romans 8:28-39?

    “(28) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (31) What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? (32) He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? (33) Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. (34) Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (36) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. (37) Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. (38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, (39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

    Or Romans 9:11 “(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)”

    Or Romans 9:22-26

    “(22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: (23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, (24) Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (25) As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. (26) And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.”

    Or John 6:37 “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

    Or 2Timothy 1:9-10 “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, (10) But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel [Jesus Christ]:”

    If we are to be workers approved unto God we must “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Tim2:15). Using Scripture to interpret Scripture instead of man’s ideas God’s children can understand God’s plan for eternal salvation. A detailed study of the words “elect, chosen, saved, and accepted will result in at least 268 Scripture uses that clearly show “works’ have nothing to do with the eternal salvation of God’s children. In-fact it will show there is nothing man can or has to do with eternal salvation. Eternal salvation is up to God and God alone, promise before the world began (Titus 1:1-2 “Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; (2) In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;”).

    Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord

    • Hello Tim – and thanks for your contribution to this subject. Please bear with me while I attempt to address the various points you make.

      Before I start, let me say this.

      Where you say,

      “Although I agree with some of your overarching premises (e.g. “Communism [has] infiltrated [many] Churches...” you then say, “I believe you may be guilty of hypocrisy”

      You say this without providing any direct evidence to support your claim regarding my “cherry-picking of the Bible”.

      If anyone is to make an allegation against another person of committing a ‘transgression’ – the claim MUST produce supporting evidence, otherwise the claim is fallacious and mischievous. It is on this basis that I reject your claim that I am “…guilty of hypocrisy” because you have failed to produce any evidence for me to examine.

      Now to your claims.

      You then refer me to statements by “Elder Michael Gowens” that refers to the Bible topic of Sanctification. Can I ask you – do you place the words of Michael L Gowens above the words of Jesus Christ and other words contained in the scriptures, Tim? It appears that you do! If so, is Michael L Gowens your Messiah?

      My point here is that my blog has nothing at all to do with the topic of Sanctification. My blog’s sole purpose is to alert Christians about the gospel they believe and to have them question whether it is the Apostle Paul’s Gospel that he termed ‘My Gospel’ or whether they have believed the Communist inspired (false) gospel termed Once Saved, Always Saved! This is the sole purpose of my blog, Tim!

      Recently I interacted with a woman from a Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) church. She refused to discuss anything with me unless it was to do with Sabbath Day (Saturday) keeping. From this and other discussions I have had with 'religious' people over many years, I have discovered that such people have their pet topics that they study amongst themselves – but when someone like me directs them away from their pet topics with my claims, they immediately feel uncomfortable and want to change the subject matter back to their pet topic. This is exactly what you have done here with your topic of Sanctification, Tim.

      Why not read through your Comment to me again, and take note that there is not one reference from you to anything in my post regarding Initial and Final Salvation. It is all about your pet topic of Sanctification – a topic that I really have no intention on debating you about.

      However, as an example of your false claims (which you hypocritically accuse me of) you said this:

      “Scripture clearly states that works have nothing to do with eternal salvation. Works are a fruit (Gal 5:22) love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance) of the Spirit working within the child of God.”

      If we look at Gal 5:22 it says this:

      "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,”

      The reality of what this scripture verse means is this.

      If you have a jar of mixed fruit placed in it, others can determine from the outside what type of fruit it contains by looking inside the jar through the glass.

      The scripture verse you referred to presents the same situation from the spiritual perspective with Christians and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit within them or not.

      In other words, if the Holy Spirit really does dwell within a Christian, this means when others come into their presence, they should be able to “taste” ALL of the the NINE spiritual “fruits” of “…love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith 23 Meekness, temperance...” that identify with the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13).

      Therefore, where you claim that “Works are a fruit...” the scripture verse you referenced proves your claim to be false! There is NOTHING in Gal 5:22 that says the word “work” or “works”. It is just your re-interpretation of the scriptures to mean what you want them to mean. Therefore, it is on this basis that I reject this claim.

      You then ask me “…how do you resolve your idea with Romans 8:28-39”.
      Again, this is all centered around your pet topic of ‘Predestination’ that I will not be drawn into. However, I will make this comment.

      In verse 29 it says,

      For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

      This verse is EXACTLY what the Apostle Paul's doctrine of Initial and Final Salvation is all about. Final Salvation requires every Christian to become just like Jesus was in faith, works and fruit unto God! If anyone believes otherwise, they are in denial of Christ and His words and the Apostle Paul's Gospel - the ONLY Gospel that Saves people from Hell!

      In James 2:26, it states that

      “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO.”

      When Jesus Christ came to the Earth in human form, He said:

      “... for THE WORKS which the Father hath given me to finish, THE SAME WORKS THAT I DO, [these] bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.” John 5:36

      The point here is that the miracles Christ performed demonstrated that He was no mere man. They proved He was God – as people clearly recognized back then as stated in John 7:31.

      A few verses earlier, Jesus gave a commandment to His disciples:

      "LET YOUR LIGHT SO SHINE BEFORE MEN, THAT THEY MAY SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS, and [by these “works” you will] glorify your Father which is in heaven [just as I have glorified Him]. Matthew 5:16

      If we say we love Jesus but yet reject His commandments because we live in unbelief, will He accept us into His kingdom? Christ clearly says that He will not:

      He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not [ALL of] my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, THE SAME [words the he rejected] SHALL JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY.” (John 12:48)

      My point here is this.

      God the Father sent His Son Jesus Christ to redeem fallen mankind from their sins. While on Earth, Jesus Christ demonstrated that He was the Son of God by the “works” He performed. Those who believed on Him did so because of the “works” of healing and miracles that He did.

      Similarly, if converts to Christianity that come to Christ by understanding the “mystery” that accompanies the Apostle Paul’s Gospel, these can expect to become the “sons of God” (Rom 8:14). If a "son of God" then each MUST be able to do the same “works” that Christ performed to demonstrate that they are truly the “sons of the Living God”:

      For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GOD.” (Romans 8:14)

      That ye may be blameless and harmless, THE SONS OF GOD, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as LIGHTS IN THE WORLD;” (Philippians 2:15)

      "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and GREATER WORKS THAN THESE SHALL HE DO; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12)

      The purpose for the “sons of God” who have been “begotten unto God through the Apostle Paul’s Gospel” (1 Cor 4:15) is that through their “good works” that Christ also performed (John 14:12) they are then able to produce the required “spiritual fruit” unto God that He requires to see produced upon each “...branch grafted into Jesus – the Vine”:

      I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 EVERY BRANCH IN ME THAT BEARETH NOT FRUIT, HE TAKETH AWAY: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.” (John 15:1-8)

      If Christians prefer to reject these Biblical FACTS that are plainly written in the scripture verses above by preferring to believe their religion’s false gospel message, then that’s their choice.

      However, AFTER the Rapture has happened and Christ has...

      “...shut to the door [of Heaven — Rev 4:1], and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door [in prayer], saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I KNOW YOU NOT WHENCE YE ARE:
      26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk
      [Communion] in thy presence, and thou hast taught [Bible studies] in our streets.
      27 But he
      [Christ] shall say, I TELL YOU, I KNOW YOU NOT WHENCE YE ARE; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YE WORKERS OF INIQUITY (or “workers of rebellion against the truths of the scriptures].
      28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, AND YOU YOURSELVES THRUST OUT.” (Luke 13:25-28)

      In summary, certain of the scriptures you referenced represent promises that God makes to His new-born “sons of God” (John 3:3-8) to give them hope. These promises are NOT to those who rebel against God who cherry-pick the Bible’s words to make up their own religion’s set of beliefs! This is what Christ meant when He referred to such Christians as "...ALL YE WORKERS OF INIQUITY".

      The remaining scripture verses relate to Initial Salvation that require FAITH ONLY and NO WORKS that associate with belief and faith only in God and through confession of that with one’s mouth (Rom 10:9-10) together with Water Baptism (Mark 16:16).

      If you reject the need for Final Salvation to be achieved in the Christian's life, then you are rejecting Christ’s words below:

      “To him that overcometh [Satan’s temptations to embrace ‘religion’ rather than Bible truths] will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame [Satan’s temptations], and am set down with my Father in his throne.” (Rev 3:21)

      In relation to Paul's Gospel - this is what the Apostle Peter said in respect of it and how Christians wrestle against it to their own destruction:

      "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is SALVATION; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." (2 Peter 3:15-17)

      I hope that this response answers your questions, Tim.

      • “ However, AFTER the Rapture has happened and Christ has…

        “…shut to the door [of Heaven — Rev 4:1]"

        There is NO RAPTURE inRev. 4:1. The church is still warned in Rev. 16:15 the exact same way it is warned in Rev. chapter 3. Keep your pre-tribulation fable to yourself. The great tribulation began in Acts 8:1 and is not yet finished. Nowhere in the Bible is spoken of a 7 years tribulation period, there is NO GAP in Daniel 9. “Rightly dividing the word of truth” doesn’t mean to cut the Bible into two parts and give one part to a group of people and the other part to another, as this is to take away from God’s word as warned in Rev. 22.

        • Hello Yosu - and thank you for your comments.

          Firstly, there are many Christians who refuse to accept that there is a 'Rapture' of the Body of Christ from the Earth, which forms one of the Five Stages of the First Resurrection. Below are listed the these Stages that are identified in scripture that form part of the First Resurrection:

          The FIVE Stages of the First Resurrection

          There are FIVE specific events associated with the First Resurrection that need to take place before it is completed. These events are listed below, remembering that at each resurrection of people into a glorified, resurrected eternal body, that scripture states that each group also ascends into Heaven:

          1. Jesus Christ –“the Firstfruit of the Resurrections”:

          "But every man in his own order: CHRIST THE FIRSTFRUITS; AFTERWARD they that are Christ's at his coming[in the clouds at the Rapture and following - prior to His Second Coming]." (1 Cor 15:23)

          • Resurrection:But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become THE FIRSTFRUITS of them that slept.” (1 Cor 15:20)
          • Ascension:And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he [Christ] was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.” (Acts 1:9)

          2. The Old Testament Saints — representing “The Main Harvest” of the Jewish Old Testament saints from “...the righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias” (Matt 23:35) unto God:

          • Resurrection:And THE GRAVES WERE OPENED; and MANY BODIES OF THE [Jewish] saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his [Christ’s] resurrection, and went into the holy city [Jerusalem], and appeared unto many.” (Matt 27:52-53)
          • Ascension: There is no record of any ascension. It has to be assumed on the basis that this ascension occurred as other ascensions followed a resurrection.

          3. The New Testament Saints — representing “The Ingathering of The Church”unto God:

          “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.[from rising from the dead to meet the Lord in the air before us who are alive and remain on Earth]"

          • Resurrection: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven [to the area of the clouds above the Earth] with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
          • Ascension:...and the dead in Christ shall rise [from their graves] first:
            17 Then we which are alive and remain [on Earth] shall be caught up [or Raptured] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” (1 Thes 4:15-18)

          4. The 144,000 Jewish Manchild — representing the “Gleanings” of Israel’s harvest

          • Ascension:And she [the Nation of Israel] brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up [or ‘Raptured’] unto God, and to his throne.” (Rev 12:5)
          • There is no recorded ‘Resurrection’ in scripture of these Jewish men, as none of these have been required to die prior to their Ascension.
          • 5. The Two Witnesses of Revelation

            "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth[or EXACTLY THREE AND A HALF JEWISH YEARS]." (Rev 11:3)

        • Resurrection:And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and THEY STOOD UPON THEIR FEET; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
        • Ascension:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And THEY ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN IN A CLOUD; and their enemies beheld them.” (Rev 11:11-12)
          • Question Yosu - if there is "no RAPTURE" as you claim, where do you place the statements of 1 Thes 4:15-18 in your set of beliefs regarding a resurrection from the dead and an ascension into Heaven?

            Next, you make the following claims:

            "There is NO RAPTURE in Rev. 4:1. The church is still warned in Rev. 16:15 the exact same way it is warned in Rev. chapter 3."

            My Comments

            "The Church" (that represents the spiritual Body of Christ that has faithfully served Christ over the past two millennia) is raptured to Heaven, as stated in 1 Thes 4:15-18. After this, there is an angel that flies around the Earth preaching the "Everlasting Gospel" to the Earth's inhabitants to try to have them accept Christ as their Savior and prevent them from taking the Mark of the Beast.

            "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." (Rev 14:5-7 )

            Prior to the Second Coming of Christ to the Earth, this is when the verse of Rev 16:15 is pronounced by Christ to those who have converted their faith to Christ from the Everlasting Gospel message by the angel:

            "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments [of Salvation - Isaiah 61:10], lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

            In this, God gives everyone on Earth during the Great Tribulation the freedom to believe whatever they want to believe Yosu. But to presume that the church in the world today goes through the Great Tribulation period with other 'infidels' mocks the reason why God removed Noah and Lot (together with their family members) from God's judgment prior to Him bringing destruction upon the inhabitants of the Earth in their days.

            Similarly, Jesus warned us that:

            "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt 24:37)

            "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all." (Luke 17:28-29)

            In the Book of Genesis chapter 19, Abraham asked the Lord whether He would spare the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah if there was 50 righteous people in the cities. The Lord said He would spare the cities if there were that many men. However, we find that when the number of 'righteous men' dwindled to one man (i.e. Lot) the Lord removed Lot and His family from Sodom prior to sending fire and brimstone upon the cities until there was only dust and ashes remaining (2 Peter 2:6).

            The key point here is the question Abraham asked the Lord and the answer that He gave that is so important in this matter is this:

            "Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? 26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes." (Gen 18:24-26)

            My point here is that if the Lord removed Noah and Lot out of harm's way before bringing His judgment upon the Earth's inhabitants in the past, these acts of mercy upon His faithful servants will be similarly reflected upon His faithful servants today in the not too distant future - as recorded in 1 Thes 4:15-18. I invite you to prove to me where the Lord has said that He will NOT remove the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:27) from the earth prior to commencing His 21 judgments upon the inhabitants of the Earth.

            Comment regarding Acts 8:1

            This scripture verse refers to the persecution of the early church that existed prior to Saul's conversion on the road to Damascus as recorded in Acts 9:1-43. To make your unsubstantiated claim that "The great tribulation began in Acts 8:1 and is not yet finished" cannot be justified using scripture. It is only your opinion, Yosu.

            If you are so convinced that this is the case, then please present more evidence than your unsubstantiated claims, Yosu.

            Finally you say:

            "Nowhere in the Bible is spoken of a 7 years tribulation period, there is NO GAP in Daniel 9."

            The Book of Daniel is VERY CLEAR that there are 490 years in which God takes to restore Israel unto Him in 'righteousness' and removes their rebellion towards Him and His Son Jesus Christ:

            "SEVENTY WEEKS are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." (Daniel 9:24)

            "Seventy weeks" equals 70 x 7 = 490 years.

            [Right click to view immage]

            This final "week of years" is going to be the most horrendous ever witnessed on the Earth. Billions of people are expected to die between now and then - both from the hands of Antichrist and his people, together with the 21 judgment from God upon the wicked inhabitants of the Earth:

            "Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? 7 Alas! FOR THAT DAY IS GREAT, so that none is like it: it is even THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE [referring to the nation of Israel], but he shall be saved out of it." (Jer 30:6-8)

            "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 FOR THEN SHALL BE GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." (Matt 24:20-22)

            "The time of Jacob's trouble..." refers to the Great Tribulation period of seven years that are the balance of the 490 - 483 years shown in the chart above. If you disagree Yosu, then please explain where I am wrong by addressing the scripture verses used above please.

            Thank you.

          • Hello Alan,

            - "In my earlier response to your comments that rejected the Pre-Tribulation rapture, I made an effort to describe to you how there are FIVE RESURRECTIONS and FIVE RAPTURES associated with the First Resurrection."

            Five resurrections and five raptures? Why not 50?

            Revelation 20 clearly says that there ONE FIRST resurrection for the dead that refused to take the mark of the beast, then a 1000 year period of time, then another resurrection. And 1 Tes 4:15-17 says that those still living are caught up only AFTER the dead are risen. And since tohse who have part of the FIRST resurrectionare those who have ALREADY been killed because they refused to take the mark of the beast, a pre-tribulation rapture is logically and chronologycally IMPOSSIBLE!

            - "If you cannot accept what scripture has plainly stated about these five events (both past and future), then there is no point in me trying to debate the matter any further with you about this – and about the Tribulation period you refer to, because you have your religious ‘blinkers on’ that demonstrate a complete disregard for what scripture plainly states."

            O am sorry, but that's exactly what I have to say to you.

            2tim 4:3-4:
            "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
            The pre-tribulation rapture fable, the "left behind" books and movies...

            Now I stop arguing with you.

            "I could not have graduated from MBI, could not have served with Berean Mission and could not have been received into assemblies meeting in Gospel Halls if I had not subscribed to this doctrine!"

            - Bruce Woodford

            "The “pre-trib. rapture” teaching cannot be found stated in scripture and pastors, evangelists, missionaries and Bible school and seminary professors who teach it would lose their jobs if they rejected it! This is the major reason why this doctrine continues to be taught – a religious system has made it a requirement for such to be “on the payroll”, in spite of the fact that neither the Lord Jesus nor His apostles ever taught it!"

            https://idfables4unity.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/pre-trib-rapture-fable/

          • Well Yosua, you don't give up easily do you?

            I said in my previous response that you had not yet addressed the issue of the 5 resurrections and the five raptures associated with the First Resurrection.

            Although you have used mockery as a weapon against my claims to try to justify your false beliefs, the fact remains that you refuse to accept what the scriptures I have presented plainly stated. This indicates that you have fulfilled the prophecy below uttered some 2,000-years ago by the Apostle Jude that warns Christians about there being mockers like you in these last days that prefer the teachings and doctrines of 'man' rather than the words of our Savior Jesus Christ:

            "But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 HOW THAT THEY TOLD YOU THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, WHO SHOULD WALK AFTER THEIR OWN UNGODLY LUSTS. 19 These be they who separate themselves [from those who love Biblical truth], SENSUAL, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT." (Jude 17-19)

            "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. 9 But IN VAIN THEY DO WORSHIP ME, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN[such as Bruce Woodford, Eusebius and Augustine]." (Matt 15:8-10)

            Until you address the scripture verses associated with the five resurrections and five ascensions, the above allegation remain against you, Yosua.

          • Hi alan,

            About Daniel 70 weeks, please read the excellent booklet available here:

            Vhttp://www.ralphwoodrow.org/assets/books/PDF/Daniel_70th_week_booklet.pdf

            Thank you

          • Yosua - I had a quick glance at what Ralph Woodrow wrote, but it is nonesense. It is a distortion of what scripture plainly states.

            As an example, Woodrow says this on page 5:

            "“Now the whole period of our Savior’s teaching and working of miracles is said to have been three and a half years, which is half aweek. John the evangelist, in his Gospel makes this clear to the attentive.”11Eusebius’ mention of “half a week” clearly refers to Daniel’s 70th week prophecy. His mention of the Gospel of John refers to the four Passovers during the ministry of Jesus (John 2:13, 5:1; 6:4. 13: 1).**John 5:1 does not mention the feast by name, but taking John 4:35 about the “four months” into consideration, it is possible to determine this was the Feast of the Passover.After a ministry of three and a half years as the Christ—the anointed one—Jesus was cut off in death, in the middle of the 70th week of seven years. As Augustine said: “Daniel even defined the timewhen Christ was to come and suffer by the exact date."

            Notice here how Woodrow quotes words of men such as "Eusebius" and "Augustine" - mean who lived some 1,500 or more years ago.

            You can choose the words from whom you want to follow - meaning Woodrow, Eusebius or Augustine, but as for me and my household, we will follow the Lord - Num 32:12 and Deut 1:36

          • Alan,

            A Pre-tribulation rapture is IMPOSSIBLE according to these verses:

            "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord SHALL NOT PREVENT them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and The DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Tes 4:15-17)

            It is clear in 1 Tes 4:15-17 that the deads are risen FIRST, and only AFTER that those alive and remaining are caught up together with them in the clouds.
            Now it is written in the book of Revelation:

            "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Rev. 20:4-6)

            Here were see that those that have part at the FIRST resurrection are those that ALREADY were beheaded for refusing to worship the beast, his image and refused to take the mark of the beast.

            Now if the word "FIRST" means what he means according to his definition, that "first" means "first" with NO OTHER BEFORE, and if what happen FIRST is the FIRST resurrection that according to Revelation 20 already include those who went through through the tribulation, and if according to 1 Tes 4:15:17 those who are still alive are caught up ONLY AFTER the dead are resurrected, then a pre-tribulation rapture is IMPOSSIBLE.

            But now the problem whith those who preach and believe in the pre-tribulation rapture fable is that these people distort the meaning of word like "FIRST" such as in "first resurrection", "LAST" such as in "last trump", etc, and ADD to scripture up to 5 resurrections, and TAKE AWAY from scripture entire books saying "this is not for the church, it's for the Jews", with the excuse of "rightly dividing" from a verse that they distort.

            INSTEAD OF BUILDING THEIR BELIEF ON WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS, PRE-TRIBULATIONISTS DISTORT THE SCRIPTURES AND THE MEANING OF THEIR WORDS TO MAKE THEM ACCORDING TO THEIR FABLE!

          • Yosua,

            I refer to my previous points about your comments on this topic. I am not wasting any more of my time when you fail to address the points I have raised previously.

          • Allan,

            Here is the proof that the church is still here AFTER Revelation 4:1

            To the CHURCH of Sardis: "...If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee AS A THIEF, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." (Rev 3:3)

            To the CHURCH of Laodicea: "...I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear... (Rev 3:18)

            These verses are warning for the CHURCH.

            Now we have another "thief in the night" and "garnment / nakedness" warning verse:

            "Behold, I COME LIKE A THIEF. Blessed is he that watcheth, and KEEPETH HIS GARMENTS, LEST HE WALK NAKED, and they see his shame." (Rev 16:15)

            IT'S IN CHAPTER 16 ! AFTER THE SIXTH VIAL!

            If the church is still warned in the 16th chapter of Revelation with the exact same words it is warned in Revelation 3:3 and 3:18, that means that the church is STILL HERE after the 6th vial of Rev. 16:15!

            Most of the pretribulationists say that "Come up hither" in Rev 4:1 is a sign of the rapture. But these same "Come hither" words appear again in Revelation 17:1:

            "Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters." (Rev 17:1)

            If "Come up hither" means a rapture, then which one it is: "Come up hither" of Rev 4:1 or of Rev 17:1? Multiple raptures?

            A rapture in the words "Come up hither" doesn't make any sense!

          • Yosua,

            In my earlier post, I went to great lengths USING APPROPRIATE SCRIPTURE VERSES to explain to you that God does NOT judge the righteous with the wicked. You have again rejected the plain words of scripture that prove what I claim is correct - instead choosing to twist other verses of scripture out of context to make your own beliefs appear plausible.

            Below is what I said previously that you still reject - to your own peril:

            "In the Book of Genesis chapter 19, Abraham asked the Lord whether He would spare the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah if there was 50 righteous people in the cities. The Lord said He would spare the cities if there were that many men. However, we find that when the number of ‘righteous men’ dwindled to one man (i.e. Lot) the Lord removed Lot and His family from Sodom prior to sending fire and brimstone upon the cities until there was only dust and ashes remaining (2 Peter 2:6).

            The key point here is the question Abraham asked the Lord and the answer that He gave that is so important in this matter is this:

            Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? 26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.” (Gen 18:24-26)

            My point here is that if the Lord removed both Noah and Lot out of harm’s way before bringing His judgment upon the Earth’s inhabitants in the past, these acts of mercy upon His faithful servants will be similarly reflected upon His faithful servants today in the not too distant future – as recorded in 1 Thes 4:15-18. I invite you to prove to me where the Lord has said that He will NOT remove the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:27) from the earth prior to commencing His 21 judgments upon the inhabitants of the Earth."

            As you have failed to take up my challenge to "...prove to me where the Lord has said that He will NOT remove the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:27) from the earth prior to commencing His 21 judgments upon the inhabitants of the Earth" - I have nothing further to say about this matter.

          • Hi Alan Manson,

            Evidences that the great tribulation began in Acts 8:1,
            after the stoning of Stephen (Acts 8:1, 11:19)

            “And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great (G3173) persecution (G1375) against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.” (Acts 8:1)

            “Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution (G2347) that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.” (Acts 11:19)

            In Acts 8:1 it is written that a great (G3173) persecution (G1375) began immediately after the stoning of Stephen. Here the Greek word diōgmos (G1375) is used. But later in Acts 11:19, regarding the exact same persecution, the Greek word thlipsis (G2347) is used instead. Both Greek words means “persecution” or “tribulation”, but what is important to note is that the Greek word thlipsis (G2347) used in Acts 11:19 is the exact same Greek word used in Matthew 24:21, where Jesus spoke about the great tribulation:

            “For then shall be great (G3173) tribulation (G2347), such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Mat 24:21)

            So the “great persecution” of Acts 8:1 is the “persecution” (= tribulation) of Acts 11:19, which according to the Greek words used, is the same as the “great tribulation” Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:21.

            There is no room for argument here. The church has been in the great Tribulation since the first century, and history proves that the great tribulation was already very intense since that time. So many Christians were crucified that there were no more trees available. Other were covered with wax and burned alive, fed to lions, etc.. I cannot imagine something worse than what these first Christians have suffered, to be qualified as "great tribulation". Today there are still many places in the wotld where Christians are persecuted, but only where true Christians are spreading the true gospel. That’s is easy to understand: the Devil doesn’t need to persecute false Christians that spread false gospels and lies, like the prosperity gospel (tithe and you will become rich), the OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) also called “eternal security” lie (license to sin), the pre-tribulation rapture fable (free air ticket to heaven), etc. Nor does the Devil need to persecute people in his dens of thieves where – for money – wolves in sheep garments satisfy people that like to hear fables and entertain those who are addicted to demonic rock music.

          • Hello Yosua,

            In my earlier response to your comments that rejected the Pre-Tribulation rapture, I made an effort to describe to you how there are FIVE RESURRECTIONS and FIVE RAPTURES associated with the First Resurrection. In these FIVE was the forthcoming 'Rapture of the Church' that you completely reject.

            If you cannot accept what scripture has plainly stated about these five events (both past and future), then there is no point in me trying to debate the matter any further with you about this - and about the Tribulation period you refer to, because you have your religious 'blinkers on' that demonstrate a complete disregard for what scripture plainly states.

            In regards to your comments about "Tribulation" and how Christians have been involved in this - let me say this based upon Christ's own words that say:

            "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)

            Therefore, it all comes down to what Jesus meant when He spoke of "personal tribulation" in the words above and not 'world tribulation' that you are referring to. I'll briefly explain to you how I have experienced 'personal tribulation'.

            1. When I gave my life to Jesus 30-years ago, all Hell broke loose and turned my happy and contented world upside down.
            2. My wife of 20 years walked out of my life without explanation and took our two children with her - none of them ever to be seen of again.
            3. She put her lawyers on me and effectively stole my children and my all of our money from me - leaving me penniless. She claimed to a Christian all along. All of this was meant to make Christ's words real to me, as He stated in Matt 10:36
            4. Some 3 years later I married a woman whom I thought the Lord would support me in ministry, but she turned out to be an agent of Satan. She stole my house and everything in it - again fulfilling Christ's words of Matt 10:36.
            5. Despite Christ restoring to me the years that the locust, the caterpillar, the palmerworm and the cankerworm had eaten away (Joel 2:25) - meaning, Christ's own army that He sent to me to destroy those things that I depended upon instead of Him - I still received rejection from 'brethren' in the many churches I attended because of their preferences for 'religion' rather than following the words of Christ - John 15:20.

            "Blessed are ye, when [Christian] men shall HATE YOU, and when they shall SEPARATE YOU FROM THEIR COMPANY, and shall REPROACH YOU, and CAST OUT YOUR NAME AS EVIL, for the Son of man's sake. 23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets." (Luke 16:22-23)

            My point here is that my faith that I share on this blog is based upon practical experiences obtained by applying Christ's words to my life. Such instruction can only come about through experiencing personal tribulation in one's own life while following "...that Great Shepherd of the Sheep" to where He wants to lead you - IF you are willing to go their by "...enduring personal tribulation" along the way (Heb 13:20-21)

            In contrast to such a spiritual journey with Christ, there are others who have commented on this blog who have a very narrow understanding of what the Bible teaches because they prefer to maintain what their Bible teachers have taught them - rather than what God the Father wants to personally teach each and every Christian as He has done with me (John 6:45).

            If Christians today followed Christ and NOT their preferred Bible teachers, then we ALL might:

            "...SPEAK THE SAME THING, and that there be NO DIVISIONS AMONG YOU; but that ye be PERFECTLY JOINED TOGETHER in the SAME MIND and in the SAME JUDGMENT." (1 Cor 1:10)

            Thank you Yosua. I'll add a few brief comments to your other posts.

            Blessings, Alan

  • Hi Alan,
    Since Oct 2019 till yesterday, I have learnt enlightening teachings from 8 preachers on YouTube, and I've been labouring to condense them into MSWord to share it with my friends & kin.

    Praise the Lord, today I found you, your graph & your one webpage that explain the comprehensive gist of my year-long endeavour.

    What's your insight on this particular teaching below? This preacher is my favourite thus far.
    https://youtu.be/YjkR0ZCWp3Q

    In Christ,
    Sui Lyn

    • Hi Sui Lyn,

      Thank you for your comments and especially those relating to my blog. God bless you.

      Firstly, I'm a very busy man so I don't have the 80 minutes needed to watch the video. Nevertheless I did listen to some of it and I checked out John Lakes website and this is what I have to offer.

      • John believes in the false doctrine of 'Once Saved, Always Saved' (OSAS). If you look on his website's 'Faith Statement' page, he says:

        "We believe repentance from dead works includes forsaking any works that might be thought to merit favor or salvation from God."

        This statement plus a lack of any other statement indicating that "works" are essential for Salvation clearly means he believes in OSAS.

      • "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17)

        "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." (James 2:26)

      • In his introductory statement on the video, John talks about healing and somewhat mocks Christians who reject spiritual healing compared to unbelievers.

        My own personal experience is that God chastens those whom He loves (Hebrews 12:6-7; 12:10). My point here is that if a Christian has been made sick by God because they are being rebellious towards Him - this means that no amount of prayer or deliverance ministry will make that Christian better. Unless that Christian is corrected by another 'loving' (some call it "judgmental") brother or sister - AND he or she finally repents from their offense towards God, that is the ONLY point when healing can take place in the Christian but NOT before.

      • I don't agree with John's promotion of wrist bands. I have seen healings take place ESPECIALLY when the elders of the church pray over items of clothing belonging to an individual needing a touch from God AND receiving it. However, as today's churches no longer have "elders" but have replaced them with a 'ministry team' comprised of both men and women, such a compromise with Christ's requirements stated in scripture (that elders and deacons be males) cannot bring about the healings with handkerchiefs as stated, so people have devised other means to supposedly achieve this. Now it is with wristbands - presumably for sale.
      • "A bishop [or elder] then must be blameless, the husband of one wife..." (1 Tim 3:2)

        "Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife..." (1 Tim 3:12)

      Therefore, I'm sorry to disappoint your expectation of Pastor John's ministry Sui Lyn, but that is how I see it from the limited time I have available to view his beliefs and practices.

      Please check out my regular teaching videos that can be found on my YouTube channel to learn more about Bible topics not covered on my blog.

      Blessings sister! Alan

  • Hi Alan,
    I am a simply man and my thinking is like that: I am the father and my child is a member of my family. Regardless of what my kid will do, he/she will always be my kid. As a child of God I received free gift from God - by grace through faith I have been saved by Him.
    And became member of His Family. As His gift is irrevocable (Rom. 11/29), He can't expel me from His family, as I can't expel my kid from my family even If my kid did something wrong.
    There is 1 condition: I am in God's family as long as Spirit Himself witness with my spirit that I am the child of God (Rom. 8/16).
    As a Christian, I am created in Christ for good works, to have fruit of the Spirit. This fruit(s) of the Spirit are not mine, they are the fruits of the Spirit, which Spirit is generating through me.
    These works (fruits) are not the condition of my salvation (as this is a free irrevocable gift of God's grace), they are just proof of my salvation.
    Personally, I do sometimes works from my flesh, sometimes Spirit using me to show people His fruits.
    I am not perfect as ap. Paul was not perfect too (Rom. 7/15-21).
    So, my advice is that: regarding salvation and works, leave the people free choice, let them believe and judge themselves, according to their own level of faith.

    • Hi Roman,

      Thank you for taking the time to comment. I will address each point you make.

      Firstly you say, "[God] can’t expel me from His family, as I can’t expel my kid from my family even If my kid did something wrong."

      The spiritual issue here is not of separating a child from a parent. Salvation is an issue as to whose (parental) voice one listens to and obeys in the spirit. In other words, if God the Father says "son, go do My will..." and then Satan says, "Yea, hath God said you need to do that???" - God the Father, Christ and the holy angels judge on whose voice the (potential) "child of God obeys". If that Child follows Satan's voice as Adam (the son of God - Luke 3:38) did in the Garden of Eden, then whose "son" did he finally end up being after he (and Eve) failed their OBEDIENCE test?

      "A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?" (Malachi 1:6)

      "If any man serve me [Jesus], let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour." (John 12:26)

      The issue here is of hearing and obeying the voice we hear in the spirit world. That of Abba Father or of Satan.

      Secondly you say, "These works (fruits) are not the condition of my salvation (as this is a free irrevocable gift of God’s grace), they are just proof of my salvation."

      The Bible reveals the ELEVEN distinctive "fruits" of the Holy Spirit's manifestation, which are these:

      • love,
      • joy,
      • peace,
      • longsuffering,
      • gentleness,
      • goodness,
      • faith,
      • Meekness,
      • temperance, (Gal 5:22-23)
      • goodness,
      • righteousness,
      • truth. (Eph 5:9)

      If a Christian has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit indwelling him or her, then ALL eleven characteristics of His presence listed above should be evident in such a Christian. EVERY Christian should demonstrate a DOUBLE PORTION of "goodness"!

      None of these are "works" as you claim. They are evidence of the Spirit's presence or if absent, the holy Spirit's absence from that Christian.

      Finally you say, "I am not perfect as ap. Paul was not perfect too (Rom. 7/15-21)."

      Jesus gave the following commend to "Be ye perfect..." as stated below:

      "
      "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

      Jesus also said that IF you love Him, then demonstrate your professed love by obeying His commandments:

      "If ye love me, keep [or OBEY] my commandments." (John 14:15)

      Satan knows that if you disobey any or all of Christ's commandments, you will demonstrate to Christ and God that you don't love Jesus Christ. If you become a disobedient "son" (as Adam was) you no longer have eternal life with Christ.

      In this, rebellion towards obeying the words of Christ and of God is akin to committing the sins of witchcraft and idolatry. God, Christ and Satan know this - but do you, Roman?

      "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry..." (1 Samuel 15:23)

      Anyone who rebels against God and Christ does NOT have eternal life. He or she will have eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire along with their 'father' - the Devil and Satan.

      I am happy to discuss this further if you choose to do so, Roman.

      Blessings, Alan

    • Hallelujah, well said brother (or sister)! I am a nurse in palliative care. I’d love people to come to know Jesus before they die, but I also know from experience that without Him I can do NOTHING. Jesus used me miraculously quite a few times though so dying patients gave their lives to Him just before they died. It was His work, not mine! Hence we will put our crowns before Him because He did all the good works in us. All I did was obeyed the Holy Spirit and opened my mouth when He said so. What He said to my patients through my mouth was enough for them to get saved and go to heaven. That was their initial and final salvation. Without the need for water Baptism. The same way the criminal next to Jesus on the cross was accepted.

      The works that is required is that I believe in Him whom the father has sent. My job is to listen to the Holy Spirit and do what He says, just as Abraham did. Obey.

      • May God bless you abundantly for your sharing of the Gospel, Gabriella.

        Thank you for sharing the work of the kingdom you have done and recognizing that Initial and Final Salvation is necessary for Salvation.

        Blessings, sister!

        (Brother) Alan

  • Hi Allan,

    I find your blog as a blessing to me, and what exactly I’m looking for. I’ve been really searching deeply for answers how to continue on with my spiritual walk, as I have been struggling and trying to search for the truth in everything I hear from a lot of preachers. Thank you and God bless you and your work. - Glenn

    • Hi Glenn,

      Thank you so much for your kind words - and ALL praise to our Lord Jesus Christ!

      If you would like further teaching in issues associated with 'My Gospel', I encourage you to view my Bible studies that can be found on my YouTube channel. These happen (usually) once per week online with a group of international Christians, and these studies are then edited and uploaded to YouTube over the weekend.

      I suggest you check out this week's forthcoming lesson, which is titled, "The Eight Stages of Initial and Final Salvation". This study will describe what each stage represents, and the achievements each stage requires for spiritual growth to take place in the Christian.

      Thanks again for your encouragement, and may God bless you brother!

      Alan

  • Hi Alan,
    Your definitions of initial and final salvation are somewhat contradictory. What happens if someone dies after initial salvation without having achieved final salvation? Are they saved? If not, "initial salvation" isn't salvation.
    What do you mean by salvation?
    I also noticed you never defined final salvation. If you work on your definitions, then compare them to what the bible says salvation is, you will hopefully learn from this process.
    God is our Saviour, so salvation is something he does for us. We still have to answer for we do with our salvation, and it will be super scary to answer to God for a less than dedicated performance. Paul wasn't threatening the Philippians with Hell, unless they wanted to indulge unrepentant in sexual immorality or materialism
    Anyway, God bless. Hope you find the truth =)

    • Hi Nova - thanks for your comment.

      Regarding your question:

      "What happens if someone dies after initial salvation without having achieved final salvation? Are they saved? If not, “initial salvation” isn’t salvation."

      Firstly, Salvation is up to God as to how long people remain alive on the Earth after they accept Christ as Savior. OUR responsibility in "...working out our own Salvation in fear and trembling that we might lose it" (Phil 2:12) is to ensure that we are heading towards the "mark of high calling in Christ Jesus" (Phil 3:14).

      In other words, Salvation is NOT about God making you an offer of eternal life and of you accepting the offer and then when you die after living an unrestrained life on Earth, you continue on to live your new life with Christ throughout eternity. That is NOT how it works.

      How it DOES WORK is this.

      If you have accepted one of the many false gospels about today, God wants to determine how much you value your Salvation. In this, He requires you to "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many [Christians], I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall NOT BE ABLE." (Luke 13:24)

      It is Satan's will that you go no further in your spiritual journey than the stage of Initial Salvation - or the acceptance of an offer from our Creator. This very low level of 'faith' (that even a child is able to accept) is insufficient to get anyone into Heaven many years later, as God requires "works of faith" to be evident in the Christian's life - the stuff where one can say, "...if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done" (Matt 21:21 - Jesus speaking).

      The Apostle James says this about "faith without any accompanying works":

      "But be ye DOERS of the word, and NOT HEARERS only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being NOT A FORGETFUL HEARER, but A DOER OF THE WORK, this man shall be blessed in his deed." (James 1:22-25)

      This is where many Christians fail in their faith today - because they have not been encouraged to "walk in the spirit" instead of the "walking in the flesh" (Rom 8:1).

      Then you say:

      "I also noticed you never defined final salvation."

      I'm sorry to disappoint you Nova, but if you go to the tab at the top of my menu items that says "Conditional Salvation" and with the sub heading titled, "The True Gospel", you will see that I have adequately described the Full Gospel that few Christians ever really hear. It can be found here.

      Finally you say:

      "Paul wasn’t threatening the Philippians with Hell, unless they wanted to indulge unrepentant in sexual immorality or materialism"

      What you have said is totally wrong, Nova.

      I invite you to click on this link and read the many Plain Laws and Warnings provided in Scripture that say that Salvation can be easily lost.

      https://mygospel.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Plain-Laws-and-Warnings.pdf

      Any comments you may have would be appreciated, Nova.

      Blessings, Alan

      • The thief on the cross was saves by confession and salvation alone. He had no works. He said remeber me in Paradise, god saved him period.

        We are saved by grace, by the blood of jesus. God does not save us and then take it away

        • Dear Anonymous,

          In response to both of your comments, God requires the Christian life to be a life of growth – just as a seed has to grow into a plant and the plant has to grow into a tree for it to produce fruit. That is what the life of a Christian is supposed to represent — according to the scriptures.

          "But HE THAT RECEIVED SEED INTO GOOD GROUND is he that HEARETH the word, and UNDERSTANDETH it; which also BEARETH FRUIT, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." (Matt 13:23)

          In contrast to this, what you present is similar to accepting an invitation. You accept it and then you attend. Nothing more to do. But, will this "invitation" really give you the eternal life you expect, or could it be a fake invitation that will disappoint you when you most need what it offers?

          Every element of grace and blessing from the gospel is in SEED-FORM and implanted in the heart of the true child of God (1 Peter 1:23; James 1:18). If the SEED is watered from Heaven and nurtured by the individual Christian in conformity to the Word of God, such Christians will grow to full maturity and ultimately PRODUCE "FRUIT" unto God (John 15:1-8).

          No amount of personal belief or attending church services will make a Christian fully mature and readied for Heaven.

          On the contrary, one must "walk in the light as He is in the light" (1 John 1:7) continually to receive knowledge, so that he or she will grow to maturity in Christ (1 John 2:14). This is the meaning behind “growing in grace” (2 Peter 3:18) and thereby moving on from being a “babe in Christ” (1 Peter 2:2) through to being a “little child” (Gal 4:19); a "strong young man” (1 John 2:14) then a “father” (1 John 2:14) and possibly a “good soldier of Jesus Christ” (2 Tim 2:3). These growth stages represent spiritual maturity as a Christian.

          God's aim of requiring Christians maturing into the MAN (or woman) of God by “growing in grace” is to determine if they are able to overcome Satan's temptations and lies - just as Jesus Christ overcame Satan's temptations and lies. If we fail to mature, we may become the same as Adam and Eve in their fallen state and rejected by our Creator.

          "To him that OVERCOMETH will I grant to sit with me in my throne, EVEN AS I ALSO OVERCAME, and am set down with my Father in his throne." (Rev 3:21)

          I hope that from this comment, you will see God’s process for Final Salvation involves much more than what you believe, Anonymous.

  • Sir

    With respect and love... John 1 says Jesus is the creator. He has created all life. I don’t believe his branches of the vine are just referring to Christians.

    John 3:16 Says who so whosoever believe in him... (note this does not lay out other conditions). For it is by Grace you have been saved through faith. Faith to believe. Faith even as small as. Mustard seed. Not by the works of ourselves so no one can boast.

    Jesus’ finished work on the cross is all that is necessary. We do good works because of the new heart Jesus places in us.

    Yes we must persevere to the end making disciples until Jesus calls us home. But God asks only that you believe and trust in him, daily.

    Also the thief on the cross did none of these things you speak of. Yet Jesus himself said he would be with him in paradise that day… He was never baptized, never had a chance to do good works, never had a chance to bear fruit.

    I appreciate your effort to get people to be more serious about their faith. But Jesus his work is simple so even a child can understand. In fact Jesus says that we have to come to him like a child, with child like understanding.

    I don’t pretend to know much about all of these things or how God thinks. But I know these verses that I spoke up here and I believe Jesus’s work on the cross is sufficient to save as long as I have faith to believe he was The son of God, died for our sins and was resurrected From death.

    I did find your information very interesting. I mean no disrespect. If you believe in Christ then you’re my brother and I love you like a brother.

    Jim

    • Dear Jim – thanks for posting your comments “With respect and love”. That’s how comments and discussion should be.
      I will ignore your comments that I agree with but quote those I disagree with.

      You say:

      “I don’t believe his branches of the vine are just referring to Christians.”

      Well, you can believe anything you like Jim but Jesus Himself said these words as Him being Christ the Vine (John 15:1-8)and of we being ""BRANCHES" grafted into Him. You either believe what Christ says or you don’t:

      I [Jesus] am THE VINE, YE ARE THE BRANCHES… 6 If a man abide not in me [as a branch], he is [pruned off Christ and] cast forth as a branch [to the ground], and [as such] is withered [spiritually dry]; and men [meaning angels] gather them, and CAST THEM INTO THE FIRE, and they are burned [for eternity in the Lake of Fire — Rev 21:8].” (John 15:5-6)

      I will add that EVERY Christian who accepts Christ as their Savior becomes spiritually grafted into Christ so that God the Father can receive spiritual “fruit” obtained from off each branch (or Christian) representing Christ on the Earth. If Christians fail to produce any of the required “fruit” for God, he or she is eventually pruned from Christ the Vine, as stated above.

      If you disagree with what I say, then please provide me with your understanding of what the parable of John 15:1-8 means, Jim.

      You say:

      “John 3:16 Says who so whosoever believe in him… (note this does not lay out other conditions). For it is by Grace you have been saved through faith. Faith to believe. Faith even as small as. Mustard seed. Not by the works of ourselves so no one can boast.”

      I agree with every word you say above, however it is in the context of a new Christian accepting Christ as Savior that represents Initial Salvation that represents FAITH + GRACE ONLY.

      By failing to accept that there are many more ‘conditions’ Christians need to meet to FINALLY secure Salvation at the end of their life is to miss the many warnings established in scripture that warn us our Salvation can be lost through either neglect or through abusing God’s grace - especially of failing God's grace:

      I do NOT FRUSTRATE the grace of God...” (Gal 2:21)

      Looking diligently lest any man FAIL of the grace of God…” (Heb 12:15)

      One of the most essential qualities God requires Christians to secure is that of HOLINESS because without it, no Christian has eternal life, as stated below:

      FOLLOW peace with all men, and HOLINESS, without which no man shall see the Lord…” (Heb 12:14)

      You say:

      “Jesus’ finished work on the cross is all that is necessary.”

      No. We are to become like Him and do the "works" that He did to demonstrate to both God and Satan that we are indeed “sons of God” (John 1:12; Rom 8:14; Phil 2:15).

      If Christians prefer to imagine that being a “son of God” is in name only without producing any of the accompanying “works” to prove he or she is a child of the Living God, then such Christians have failed to “study their Bibles to become approved of God” (2 Tim 2:15), which means they have no Salvation.

      "But be ye DOERS of the word, and NOT HEARERS ONLY, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was." (James 1:22-24)

      You say:

      “We do good works because of the new heart Jesus places in us.”

      Maybe you might like to share with me what “works” you have done that you think God will find acceptable to Him based upon this verse of scripture, Jim:

      For whosoever shall do the will of God [through “spiritual works” — Gal 3:5 compared to Heb 9:14], the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother [meaning ‘family’ in Heaven].” (Mark 3:35)

      You say:

      “Yes we must persevere to the end making disciples until Jesus calls us home.”

      What you refer to “persevere” is probably completely different to what God refers to in the Christian life.

      As an example, standing up for “righteous values” in today’s generation of wickedness will bring about such persecution that a Christian could easily lose their life in many countries today, which makes "persevering" a very difficult proposition. I’m wondering if this is the level of perseverence you are referring to here Jim?

      You say:

      “But God asks only that you believe and trust in him, daily.”

      Where does it say that Salvation is secure if “…you believe and trust in him, daily”, Jim? Maybe you could share those verses with me?

      You say:

      “Also the thief on the cross did none of these things you speak of. Yet Jesus himself said he would be with him in paradise that day… He was never baptized, never had a chance to do good works, never had a chance to bear fruit.”

      God has allowed Salvation for everyone — whether it was the thief on the cross who could not be baptized (Mark 16:16) or perform any “works” (James 2:26).

      In this example, God has allowed for Salvation to be obtained for a person about to die on a hospital trolley prior to going into surgery. However, for other Christians who live on from their Initial Salvation day many years after, both God and Christ expect them to seek the Gifts of the Holy Spirit in which to bring forth MUCH FRUIT into God’s kingdom. If Christians fail to bring forth such “fruit” – they are deemed by God the Father to be “fruitless branches” (John 15:5-6:) and therefore unworthy of entry into God’s kingdom and therefore eternal life with Christ.

      "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also." (James 2:26)

      You say:

      “I appreciate your effort to get people to be more serious about their faith. But Jesus his work is simple so even a child can understand. In fact Jesus says that we have to come to him like a child, with child like understanding.”

      It is VERY clear in my article — ‘Final Salvation: Running the Race’ that after a Christian is spiritually “born again” into God’s kingdom, that he or she must then commence GROWING in maturity from that of:

      • A “babe in Christ” (1 Cor 3:1)
      • A “little child” (1 John 2:13)
      • A “strong young man” (1 John 2:14)
      • A “father” (1 John 2:13)
      • A “good soldier of Jesus Christ” (2 Tim 2:3).

      If Christians fail to fully understand what it means to become genuinely “born again” (John 3:8) this means they have NO Salvation (John 3:5) as clearly stated by Jesus.

      My point here is that your reference to a “child like understanding” of Salvation refers to Initial Salvation. If Christians fail to progress past this point of Biblical understanding, there is no Salvation.

      Christians MUST be “born again” and then progress on in spiritual maturity while bringing forth the required spiritual “fruit” along the way to please God and to demonstrate he or she is a “son of God”:

      No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.” (2 Tim 2:4)

      You say:

      “…I believe Jesus’s work on the cross is sufficient to save as long as I have faith to believe he was The son of God, died for our sins and was resurrected From death.”

      You can believe whatever you like Jim. But, there is only ONE Gospel that Saves. The TRUE Gospel is a “mystery” that very few (if any) Christians know or care about today. This ‘mystery’ represents Final Salvation and that of spiritually maturing throughout one's Christian years while bringing forth spiritual “fruit” unto God along the way.

      And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known THE MYSTERY OF THE GOSPEL,” (Eph 6:19)

      The TRUE Gospel requires Christians to OBEY it if they expect to receive eternal life after one dies. Most (if not ALL Christians today would argue that the Gospel needs to be obeyed. However, if they fully understood God's purposes behind Final Salvation they would see that obeying what I have described brings forth many blessings from God.

      I'll see if I can find time to respond to your other comments, Jim.

      Blessings, Alan

    • The verse you quote from Ephesians... once you believe you are sealed by the Holy Spirit...

      If you love Jesus you will obey his commandments. And thereby do good works and accomplish these things you speak of.

      However, it is not conditional. And it is nothing that we can do to achieve. Our best is filthy rags to God. Right?

      Loves these discussions. Hope all is well with you. Have a great weekend.

      Jim

  • Hi Alan,
    I would like to ask you few questions.
    1. Could you share your testimony how you got saved and why do you believe you got saved.
    2. With what authority are you teaching the Holy Scriptures.
    3. Where does in the Bible you found such a term as a “Souls winners crown “ and why did you implemented this ideology into: 1 thes 2:19 two times in your article : “10 crowns in the scriptures” as this term is not even in the Bible?

    • Hi Daniel,

      I apologize for my late reply, but your comment was stuck in my Spam box.

      My answers to your questions:

      1. Quote: Could you share your testimony how you got saved and why do you believe you got saved."
      2. I genuinely gave my life to Jesus at age 13-years. I backslid very quickly thereafter but was not a "bad person". I was Initally Saved back then, but didn't know it. Had I died anywhere in between, I would have gone to Hell as an unsaved sinner.

        Some 27-years later and after searching through the New Age Movement for some 3-years to find 'The Truth' about the afterlife that I believe the Christian churches know very little about, I eventually had a personal encounter with Jesus Christ that changed my life completely. I have never considered going to my old ways ever since - and that was 30-years ago.

        In my life I have lost houses, lands and two children for my life in Christ (Matt 19:29) - but Jesus has given me a NEW LIFE of abundance - both in material and spiritual blessings.

        I hope that brief explanation helps. Daniel.

      3. Quote: "With what authority are you teaching the Holy Scriptures."
      4. I use John 6:45, which says:

        "It is written in the prophets, And THEY SHALL BE ALL TAUGHT OF GOD. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me." (John 6:45)

        My point here is that I have been personally taught the understanding of the scriptures by Father God just as He says He will do for everyone who wants that type of teaching. He is my authority, together with Jesus Christ. Amen? All you have to do is look at what I write and compare with what I say to the scripture verses either quoted or referenced. It is they (the words of scripture) that speak for themselves, as God's word is a Living Word.

      5. Quote: "Where does in the Bible you found such a term as a “Souls winners crown."
      6. Maybe you can show me where exactly I said this Daniel. I am happy to respond, but the search of my website and a search of my computer failed to bring up any reference to this. Maybe you can show me where you read it?

      7. Quote: "why did you implemented this ideology into: 1 thes 2:19 two times in your article : “10 crowns in the scriptures” as this term is not even in the Bible?"
      8. Sorry Daniel - I cannot find any reference to this. You will need to give me a link to the webpage on both of these points.

      I hope this answers most of your questions.

      Alan

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